S.5 # 21 | The Mitsui Method: Activating your potential

Listen to my interview with founder and director of the Mitsui Collective Yoshi Silverstein. In this inspiring episode, you will learn about Jewish embodiment, the diversity of the Jewish people, and why Judaism is so powerful in nourishing our body and soul, as well as activating our potential.

mentions: 

Mitsui Collective: www.mitsuicollective.org

Ido Portal - a movement and fitness teacher who founded the "Movement Culture"

Shai Faran - an Israeli dancer, teacher and choreographer

Transcript

Hello, I'm Yuliya, the voice of the podcast Love to Heal, a journey of self discovery, healing and spiritual growth. 

A few weeks ago, I shared my experience of a Havdalah event that I attended and that I really enjoyed. 

And. 

And it was there that I met Yoshi Silverstein, who led an amazing Jewish embodiment workshop and who is my guest today. 

So, hi, Yoshi. 

Unknown

Hi. Great to be on. 

Julia

Thank you. Thank you for doing this. 

So Yoshi is the founder and executive director of the Mitsui Collective. 

He will tell us more about this in just a moment. 

But I say we start from the very beginning. 

So I know this is going to sound somewhat stereotypical, but when I first saw you, Yoshi, I didn't think Jewish. 

Right. When I saw you, I was like, okay, maybe he's Jewish somehow, but how? 

And then you introduced yourself and you told us. So can you tell us a little bit about your background? 

Unknown

Sure, yeah. So I am a Chinese, Ashkenazi American Jew, identified as a Jew of color. 

And yeah, I am Ashkenazi, Eastern European Jewish on my dad's side and Chinese on my mom's side. My dad's side comes from kind of classic Ashkenazi locations, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland slash Russia, depending on where the border was at that time. 

And his family came to the States in the early early 20th century. 

And then my mom's side is Chinese, and her parents actually her grandma, or, sorry, my grandma, her mom was born and raised in Guyana, so. And then came to the States from Guyana. So we actually have a little bit of this kind of Caribbean cultural influence as well. And as I like to say, I'm a child of the Diaspora in, like, always. 

Right. 

And so I think I grew up in Spokane, Washington, which is in eastern Washington, 20 minutes from Idaho, very small Jewish community. 

And I think that relationship to land and place and culture and lineage, like all of those have been really kind of active and alive for me my whole life and I think have played out in all sorts of ways in terms of, certainly personally, but also professionally in terms of the different. 

The different learning and work and practice that I have always been most interested in. And I think what I love about Judaism is I think it gives us sort of this, like, framework or lens to do that exploration in a way that can both ground and connect us to all of these different lineages that many of us hold, whether it's the sort of more, you know, yeah, classic or stereo stereotypical or, you know, Ashkenormative, so to speak, way that a lot of folks Think about, you know, certainly American Jews or folks like me who have, you know, some mix of backgrounds or come from others. I think Judaism can. Can hold all of that in some really rich ways. 

Julia

Wow, that's really interesting. 

Yes. Because typically in Judaism, you are considered a Jew if your mother is Jewish. 

In your case, it's your father. So I was wondering exactly, like, what was it about Judaism that drew you in? And you kind of explained that. 

But when did you start to feel this connection to Judaism? Did you grow up Jewish? 

Unknown

Yeah, so. So I did grow up Jewish. 

Yeah. My. My mom. My mom actually is Jewish now. She converted. 

Julia

Okay. 

Unknown

She. She converted after my sister and I were born, and we were raised at a Conservative synagogue, which does follow, you know, the matrilineal descent. So I went through my own conversion process before. Right. You know, the year before my bar mitzvah. 

And so I sort of like to say I am both a Jew by choice and a patrilineal Jew. Right. And so there's plenty of Reform, plenty of movements that do. Do hold by the patrilineal descent as well, and which I strongly believe in. So I sort of have multiple pathways. Right. Through which that. And. 

And yeah, actually, my mom, she was always fully on board with us having. 

With, like, having a Jewish family. 

And in the early times, you know, before she and my dad got married, et cetera, she did not see at that time the need to personally become Jewish in order to have a Jewish family. 

And so we, yeah, we were raised, you know, we, you know, like many other American Jewish families, we celebrated, you know, Hanukkah and Passover and sort of the big things. And we were not particularly involved in our local synagogue. 

And that changed as I got a little bit older. And this story is. It's funny, so it's worth telling. 

I was in a Montessori school for elementary, and of course, the two other guys that were in my grade were also Jewish. I mean, again, Spokane, Washington, does not have a large Jewish community, but, you know, we kind of cluster. 

So one of my friends, Isaac, he was at Hebrew school, and that was the year that we had Hebrew school started. I think it was third grade. 

And I decided not to go. My older sister hadn't gone, and I just sort of didn't see. See the need. 

So this was, you know, a couple months into the year, and he came into school one day and said, yoshi got to see what we learned in Hebrew school last night. And he showed me how to write doo doo in Hebrew. 

So third grader again I thought it was hilarious. And I was like, wait, that's what you're learning in Hebrew school? And I literally went home that night. I was like, ma, you got assignment for Hebrew school. I had, like, no idea. And she was like, okay. 

She's like, well, this year's already started. I'm not going to, like, sign you up now, but you can start next year. So I had a tutor and got caught up and whatnot. 

And here I am running, you know, 30, whatever years later, running a Jewish nonprofit organization, right? So you never know what those kind of seeds can be. 

And, yeah, I think as I got older, my bar mitzvah, I mean, my Torah portion was Nitzavim Bayela, which has one of those really, there's. I mean, obviously a lot of great lines in the Torah, but this line is when Moses is sort of giving his final, you know, speech before the Israelites. They're about to enter the land of Israel without him. 

And he says, I set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. 

Choose life that you and your descendants may live. 

And so I remember being on the Bema for my bar mitzvah, my rabbi pulling out that verse and saying, you know, every step along the way, you have really chosen your Jewishness, your Jewish life, your Jewish identity, etc. 

And that's really powerful. And that has really stuck with me. And I think even though, right. I sort of technically or formally made the choice to become Jewish, you know, to become a Jew by choice, I feel like that continues. And I think actually for all of us today, it's like an ongoing choice. It's very easy to just kind of stop. 

I mean, you don't stop being Jewish in terms of your identity, but to stop being sort of like, actively Jewish or practicing in any way, it's. It's really easy. Like, there's a lot of other great stuff to do in the world. 

So I think for those of us, you know, who that's important, it is an active choice every day sometimes. 

And so I. So I think about that a lot. And. 

Yeah. And last thing I'll just say to your question is, I think with that and then high school and beyond, I started to get more and more involved in Jewish youth group and also sort of Jewish creative pursuits. For a long time, that was music and in sort of the music and then nature connection. 

And so I think I found, when I looked at some of these different areas that I was interested in and looked at them through a Jewish lens or some sort of Jewish anchoring or grounding it. Just. Just it helped it feel that much more kind of rooted and connected to just this, like, deep part of who I was. I think, actually like a spiritual sense of connection. And so that was music. And then the first part of my career was in Jewish nature education, sort of using sort of Jewish experiences in nature to really connect us to ourselves and our community and the world of creation. 

Julia

Well, that's really awesome. I mean, I honestly have never met anyone with that kind of educational background. And how you put everything together, that's pretty amazing. 

And I was just going to say too, that it's interesting. 

For example, let's say you're by parents, half Jewish, and you identified with Judaism and you went for it and you actively sought it out. And then there are Jews who are 100% Jewish and they want nothing to do with it. 

And I'm very familiar with that because coming from the Soviet Union, I grew up without religion, period. 

And I didn't know anything about Judaism until my family immigrated to the United States. 

And to this day, really, I'm the only one that is pursuing Judaism and actually becoming active with it. So it's just really interesting how some people find that connection and others don't, but sort of I feel like part of what I want to do with my podcast is try to get as many Jews to become active and to feel that spiritual connection. Because when you do, I mean, it's life changing, at least for me. 

I know. That's why I talk about all these experiences in my podcast. Because not only do you heal physically and mentally and emotionally and spiritually, it's just. 

It's so life changing in a positive way. 

And so, yeah, I thought you would have a lot to say about that too, today. 

But yeah, so, like, you just started mentioning a little bit of. About what you've studied and what you do. 

When I read your resume, it was very impressive. 

And so could you tell us a little bit about some of your most prominent projects, accomplishments? I know you have a lot, but. 

Unknown

Some of them, yeah, I mean, I just. 

Yeah, I have a lot of interests and I love to love to learn. And, you know, I have adhd, so my brain is going lots of different ways, you know, and obviously that brings certain challenges, but I think it also helps me to sort of really see connections between things. And I like to say I have a hard time keeping hobbies. Hobbies, because if I get really interested in something, I then see ways in which it is or can be connected to all these other facets of Sort of my work and interests. And so then it sort of gets pulled in, you know, to like, work I'm already doing. So I have to be careful, you know, with, with like trying new things out because, like, oh, I really like this. It's probably going to just add on. 

Yeah. So I spent really the first 15 or so years of my life in Jewish outdoor nature based education. 

And like I said before, I think that. And that was sort of a. It was like an epiphany in college, or actually the real epiphany, which followed the misguided epiphany. 

I had just gone through a breakup and was in this, you know, classic, very, you know, sad, depressed place of like, oh, what's, what's my life gonna be after? You know, I thought it was going this way and now it's, you know, and all of that and sort of in the midst of that and I thought I was gonna. I. I went pre med for a year. Halfway through college. It did not go well. It was like, clearly not the right choice. I thought for a minute I wanted to be a pediatrician. 

I mean, I, because I, you know, I had worked at, I've been a camp counselor and, you know, been a mitzvah tutor. And like, I knew I, you know, work. Liked working with kids. And so there was, I think that was part of the kind of the, the what compelled me towards that. And also looking back on it, like, and now I do embodiment work, you know, which I'll talk about. But I think there was also this like, oh, like working with the body and working with wellness and healing. Actually there was more of a seed there early on than I realized. 

And so. But, you know, the sort of like premed, sort of classic, you know, medicine track was not the right track for me. 

And I went through that breakup and then I was like, oh, what am I going to do with my life? 

And so in the midst of that, I sort of started to reflect. Okay, what are, what are the things that are most compelling and really nourishing for me? And that's why I thought about all these experiences that I had had in Jewish community, in nature, and sort of especially where there was some combination of those things were these really spiritually, you know. Yeah, spiritually nourishing and really compelling experiences. And so I sort of thought, oh, what would it be like? 

How can I facilitate those experiences for others? Oh, I think I want to be a Jewish outdoor educator. And I was like, okay, what does that look like? How do I actually do that? You know, and you know, there actually is, that was early on, but there is now really a very robust world of Jewish nature based education. And so I got, was got plugged into that. 

And I think really as I look back on that, I think obviously, I mean, I love being in nature, but I think the part that really kind of fascinated was fascinating. The part that was most fascinating for me was what is our human experience in nature and what types of experiences can we have that are sort of catalyst. 

Let's connect both to, you know, this larger world around us in that sense of interconnection to the ecology and the ecosystems around us. How does it connect us to the people around us, the sort of social ecology. And then also and then, and how does it connect more deeply with ourselves, that sort of internal sense of connection. 

And so nature is like just a really potent and powerful teacher in that way that really sets the stage to have those experiences. And so as I look back, I was like, oh, those were always the things that I loved the most and loved to bring into my teaching. 

And so I did that for a long time. And then, you know, I think a few different, you know, a few different elements started to come into play. One was I was working and living in some really beautiful remote locations. 

I mean, I got to live in like the Olympic mountains in Washington and the central mountains of Idaho and up in like rural Connecticut and like beautiful places, but that were kind of literally peripheral to where kind of like the heart of most communities are, which is, you know, sometimes urban or semi urban, but like, you know, where folks really live. And, and to me it was like, okay, if we're really going to deepen our impact, whether it's for nature preservation or healing or spirituality, whatever it is, those experiences of sort of, of leaving where your home is and going out somewhere else are really important and powerful and they're limited because it's by nature. 

It's like a leaving and coming home experience. 

So those are important, that sort of like going on retreat or going on that journey. But to me, the more, the deeper question to me is like, what happens when we come back home and how do we actually integrate this into our day to day life? 

Right? Because if we want actual ongoing long term change and transformation, we have to be develop and be supported in a practice. 

And so I've seen that in my nature education world and different things. 

And so I think part of that, plus just my own interest in movement and embodiment work and somatics and wellness kind of led me to like, oh, well, turns out my body goes with me everywhere I go. 

Right. And so how can we actually, like, work with our own bodies and also work in havruta in partnership with others in ways that, like, actually we can do almost everywhere. And it's not that the space doesn't matter. I mean, so I also, along the way, got my master's degree in landscape architecture. So I clearly, like. 

I appreciate good design, and I really think about that a lot. So the space does matter. 

And I think there's sort of like, okay, and then what do we do in the space when. When we're there? And so I think that led me into this world of embodiment, of really thinking about what are the. What are the practices that can connect us more deeply to ourselves, to our. 

Our people, our lineages, culture, to each other and, you know, as well as the natural. 

Natural world around us. Yeah. 

Julia

That's really cool. That's really neat. 

So I. I've only. 

Unknown

Sorry for the rant. I. I don't give short answers. 

Julia

No, that's. 

Unknown

Should have warned you. 

Julia

All good. 

So obviously. Well, not obviously, but I have only really been in one of your sort of workshops, right. 

At the Havdala event. 

And so there I experienced some exercises that I think, correct me if I'm wrong, were designed for cultivating awareness, creativity, things like that. So I'll just give some examples to the listeners. 

So we had one exercise where we would drop a ball, a tennis ball, and then our partner would have to catch it, and we would have to get creative and make it a little bit more playful and fun and see if they can catch the ball. And so we had that, and then we had the movement with music, which I found to be super liberating for me. I really enjoyed that one. 

So. Yeah. 

Is this the kind of movement that you are referring to, that you can do with your body, wherever you go? 

Unknown

Sure, yeah. 

I mean, I think there's a whole. There's. There's a whole world of movement, obviously, that we can do. 

So, yeah, from a sort of functional, practical standpoint, there's just a whole range of, you know, okay, here's movement that I need zero equipment for nothing. I just need my body and a little space to, you know, all sorts of things that do require, whether it's a barbell or machines or. 

I forget what the name of the Pilates machine is. Whatever. Like, you know, where you need some sort of, like, special equipment or whatever. So there's just a whole rang, you know, of. Of that. I. We do sort of trend towards the simpler in terms of the need for different, or the use of different tools and implements. And I think part of that is also, you know, the accessibility sort of having things that people can kind of jump into immediately. 

You know, when I'm again traveling around, it's like, you know, what can I easily kind of carry with me? So there is just a practical element to that and I think there's. There's certainly good value and use to having equipment depending on just what you're trying to do with your movement. 

So yeah, I think the different things that we were doing this was, yeah, a sort of intro level, you know, workshop of bringing folks in that, you know, with any range of background. I mean, you know, you've got a lot of dance background, right. And others have different sports, et cetera, and others have very little. So I'm always thinking about, okay, I don't know who's going to be in the room. 

So how can I sort of hit a relatively wide and more accessible range in terms of how we're jumping into things? 

Giving some sort of, you know, and some simple prompts that most people can jump into pretty easily. They don't need a lot of background knowledge or skill to sort of get into it. Right. 

So that was definitely part of why, you know, I chose some of those prompts. I think some of the other pieces that are particularly important is thinking about what we call embodied hvruta, learning. So hruta, it's a Hebrew word of course. It comes from the word have there, which is friend, or have there, which is connection. 

You know that that root shows up in different ways. You've also got like hevre, which is sort of, is like a group, not just a group of friends. It's like almost like a. I don't know, it's like a tight knit sort of like society is like hevre, you know, it's like your people and you've got like havra, which is also sort of like a DIY kind of community. So anyway, that, that root shows up all over the place. Chevrota is, is a form of Jewish partnership learning. 

And that traditionally shows up in studying Jewish text. 

And so just. Yeah, one of the most classic ways to study text is with a hruta, with, with this learning partner. And it's a really special relationship where so, so like there are folks like, who are deep in the study of Torah who don't just have like any havruta. I mean, you can, you can just sort of like partner up with who's in the room. But like, there are people who have like, their havruta, where this is their. Their learning partner, who in some cases this is a relationship that can go on for decades. Like, it's a really special relationship. And so the idea of this one is just anytime you're studying with another person, it's sort of this, like, triangulation. 

So you have, you know, you have, you. You have the text. 

And then when you add another person, you have that third point of the triangle. And so it means that I relate to the text differently because I have my Shavuta partner who is bringing their interpretation skills, life experience. 

Like, they're just bringing themselves into it, right. And so that. 

That creates different sort of perspectives on the text. 

And then also, like between me and my partner, right? So it's this sort of triangulation where it really shapes the learning in a different way and it pulls things out. 

There's also this idea, I can't remember the exact source, but the. 

That your hiruta partner. It's like this idea of sharpening each other's blades or sharpening your swords, which is kind of an interesting thing because it's like, for studying text, but it's sort of like, yeah, if that is your tool, right, that there's a sharpening, a honing. So, like, a good favorite partner actually shouldn't just agree with you all the time. 

That's actually maybe a sign that. 

Well, it could be a sign of a lot of things, but in the ways that that's like, not a positive thing. It's like, oh, if there. It's just like. It's like when you have a yes, like you're yes man. Yes. Like, like leaders know, right? That like, if you have. People are only saying yes to you, they're not gonna. They're not helping shaping, they're not keeping you accountable. All of those things. 

So good. Kavruta will disagree with you, but in this, like, productive, generative way. Right? That's the sort of like, the sharpening is like, wait, you're giving this interpretation why? Or like, tell me where that comes from sometimes. Yeah, so whatever. So anyway, so we take that into the embodied learning where we say, yeah, it is. 

There's a deep relationality to our embodied learning. 

And often, as much as possible, that partner is another human. Right? 

We can also be always. Even if we don't have other people, we can always be in relationship to ourselves and in relationship to the environment around us. So that sort of idea of kavruta can still Be there even if we're sort of doing a solo practice. But it really comes alive with other people. And so again, that sort of really shapes the learning in different ways. So with the tennis ball dropping, it's sort of like a. 

It's really like, I can drop the tennis ball for myself, but it's. It's hard to really give the proper stimulus and it's hard to surprise yourself. Right. 

So your partner just functionally can do things where you're like, I'm not sure where the ball is going to go next. And so that just helps to kind of push my learning edge in that way. 

Um, but also if they're being a good partner, they're really watching and sort of seeing like, oh, where is that edge? What are you doing? Well, what's sort of. Where what's sort of interesting, what's hard, what's challenging. And they're constantly sort of taking that feedback and adjusting how they're giving that prompt of, in this case, dropping the ball. And then lastly is like. And then it's different with different people because everyone's different. 

Right. So that shapes like if you and I were to be partners, that would be one experience. 

And if it was me and somebody else, like, those are different experiences. So the more that I bring that in, and I think that's part of what really shapes the practice from being purely or exclusively like a physical practice, which it is, and it's really helping with coordination and timing and like all of those sort of physical qualities. 

But then it bring that intentionality in Hebrew or Kavanaugh. Right. Like that's sort of what then elevates it to embodiment work where I'm thinking about not just what am I physically doing, but some of those other qualities of am I being a good partner and what does that look like in this case? And how can I take that and practice partner in ways that when I sort of leave, you know, leave the studio space, so to speak, like we've finished our practice for the day and I go back into just my regular day to day life. 

I'm actually taking those learnings and still kind of putting them into practice. 

When I'm not dropping a tennis ball for somebody, but we're doing other partnership activities, you know, just in life. 

Julia

Wow, that's really neat. 

As you're mentioning all these Hebrew terms. I'm jotting them down in Hebrew, which I'm really proud of myself because I picked up studying Hebrew again after, I don't know, like 20 years of not studying it. Yeah, so it's just me, but I'm. Yeah, these are really interesting and important terms that. 

Yeah, I'll have to do some more digging on. 

Okay, so then I should say one. 

Unknown

Thing, just real quick, is just to give proper credit for the practices that we did. 

So. So those practices themselves are not like. Those are. I have adapted those from other sort of lineages of movement work. 

And so the tennis ball dropping comes kind of most directly from the work of Ido Portal, who is originally Israeli movement researcher, practitioner, and has done really a lot of tremendous work in the movement sort of pedagogy world. And as I've learned a little bit with Ido, but spent a lot of time working with a lot of his students who have different schools when I was in Brooklyn, and really good friends who were involved in their school in Boulder and Denver. So a lot of that work sort of is adapted from that work. And then you mentioned this sort of dance practice that we did. 

They sort of involved sort of like, kind of segmenting and sort of creating segments. Yeah. Separating parts of the body in order to sort of reconnect and sort of really feel that integrity, integration in different ways and get into different shapes of the body and all of that. And that comes from learning. I did with a woman named Shai Ferran, who, as it turns out, is also. 

I do. 

You know, I source from other folks, too, and she lives in Berlin, but she's got an incredible choreographer and, like, modern. Modern dancer and dance teacher. 

And so I was at a. At a retreat where she was bringing some of that work in. 

Julia

So, you know, that's really cool. 

Unknown

Just to make sure I'm giving credit to, like, the original source and then taking it, sort of weaving in some of these Jewish ideas or concepts into, like. 

None of them would talk about embodied Kavuta. Right. 

They do talk about partnership in different ways. And so that's sort of our layer of saying, oh, how do we, you know, work with some of these different practices, adapt them, change them, et cetera, but then also give them, you know, see where there's this parallel or mirroring in Jewish wisdom, Jewish cultural expression, you know, ideas, whatever it is, to allow us to sort of both deepen our exploration of those things and also shape the practice, you know, by kind of holding that additional framing. 

Julia

Yeah, no, that's awesome. 

But you also have some connection to your Chinese roots, right? 

Yes. 

Tell us a little bit about that. 

Yeah, and everything. 

Unknown

For sure. Yeah. So. So I. 

So I've been a martial artist my whole life. 

I Started when I was five and actually grew up doing a. 

This is I think just like the beauty and you know, whatever the world of martial arts. I mean, so it's, it's a Thai style, which it is, it's called Lotus, but it's actually an offshoot of a style called Kaju Kenbo, which is a hybridized style that came up in the 50s in Hawaii. 

It's actually a hybrid. Kaju Kembo is actually an acronym for karate, judo, Kenpo and then both Chinese American boxing. So it was like sometimes they're like, this was the first, you know, mixed martial art. You just, you know, cut you. 

And of course, I mean all of the, all of the different styles of course have always been, been influenced by other styles. Someone brought this from China to Japan and to Korea and like, you know, like that is just the world of which which culture travels, right, and influences others. 

Sometimes we're more straightforward about admitting that and sometimes less so. Right. 

So anyway, Lotus was, is this, this offshoot that was then sort of developed by, by Preacha Maheshnabang, who is a Muay Thai fighter and learned from one of the senior grand masters of Padre Kembo, and then wove in some of these different Thai elements, some of the Muay Thai or Thai kickboxing and some different Thai cultural elements and sort of like created this, you know, new slash off shoe that he called Lotus. 

So that's the style that I grew up doing. But then, you know, again sort of has, I mean karate is a Japanese style, as is Kenpo, you know, judo, you got your Chinese boxing. But like karate and Kenpo are also deeply influenced by Chinese martial arts. So there's just this whole web, right, of, of how these different lineages have mixed, mixed and matched. 

So I say that my whole life was a competitive kickboxer in high school as well. Got my black belt on Lotus senior year. 

Got to actually travel to Thailand a couple years later with my family. My mom and my sister are also black belts. 

So our, our instructor, our head of school in Spokane where I grew up, spent the whole summer in Thailand studying with the founder and sort of invited his like black belts and senior students. Like he's like, if you can come to Thailand, you know, for however long, come train. And so we were there for, for a week, which is a really cool experience. 

And so, and then I was away from martial arts for, for a long time. I, you know, I was trying some different things here and there in college. And then, you know, Lotus is a very small style there's not a lot of schools. So it's not the kind of school. It's not the kind of style where you can kind of find a school almost anywhere. Like Taekwondo, for example. Very, very popular. 

You can find probably multiple Taekwondo schools almost. Oh, yeah, Almost anywhere. 

Julia

Does it? 

Unknown

Yeah, right, exactly. So. 

So Lotus is not like that in terms of. In terms of the distribution. So I tried out some different things and nothing quite set. And then, you know, and then I was living in the mountains and, you know, different. Different places. So I was away for a long time. 

And then, you know, was. 

Got into. Actually CrossFit was one of the things that really brought me back into, like, the world of movement and fitness and whatnot. And that's. And then ultimately into some of the studies that I mentioned with. With movement in general. 

And so really over the last several years back in Cleveland, you know, we. We've been back in Cleveland, my wife and I for. And our daughter for a little over five years. She grew up here. 

And, you know, we moved actually in summer of 2019, and I started a Mitsui collective in February of 2020. Just in time for the time. 

Julia

Yep. 

Unknown

So, you know, lots of things there. But yeah, once sort of when we got to this, you know, post pandemic, I was recognizing, oh, I really, really miss martial arts. And I want to get back into it. 

There's no Lotus school here, you know, so. All right, what, what is available and if I'm going to start, you know, learning a new style, what would that be? And I said, well, I, you know, really like this to be a way to sort of connect more deeply into my Chinese heritage. 

And it's just like growing up, food was one of the most significant elements in terms of how we really stay connected to our Chinese roots. And my mom makes amazing Chinese food that she learned from her grandpa, etc. 

And I do some of them decently well. Right. Some of those dishes. 

But anyway, so I said, okay, let me learn some. I'd love to learn some Chinese martial arts. And that led me to the school where I've been at, for getting close. Close towards. Towards three years, which is a Chinese martial arts kind of kung fu school. 

And so I practice Tai Chi and Swayzhou are my main practices there. So Tai Chi, most people know, right? It's sort of this kind of more gentle, meditative movement. 

It is a martial art in terms of, like, the movement forms, the patterns, et cetera. Those are all martial arts movement forms. Obviously the context is not mostly like a combat or competition Right. But it is a martial art. 

And then Swayzhou is Chinese wrestling and is really actually a sister style of Tai chi. And so one of the things I really appreciate about being at the school is that I'm in my Tai Chi class and our instructor can be like, oh, because. Because I do both. You know, he'll say, oh, Yoshi, like, see what we're doing here? He's like, you recognize that for my Swayzhou? And I was like, yes. So like, just to see that crossover in terms of those movement patterns. 

So I do Swayzhou and then Sanxiao, which is also called sanda or Sanda, which is Chinese kickboxing. 

And so switch out is it's a Chinese wrestling. It's a throwing style most similar to judo in terms of what people know. And so you are, you know, we're trying to throw your opponent to the ground. 

There's no, you know, there's no grappling. There's no ground ground game. It's like once you're. Once you hit the ground, you stop reset, you know. 

So, yeah, it's been. 

It's been really fantastic to really kind of get back into that. 

Lotus does have a lot of judo incorporated into it. So there were, you know, I was not kind of starting from zero. I had a lot of that. But I think being able to, you know, get into that practice of like, oh, how do you actually, you know, how do you actually throw someone who is actively trying to both resist and throw you at the same time? It's very different than somebody who is like, letting you throw them, which, you know, so it's been really fun and just through kind of circumstance. 

A little over a year ago, I competed for my first time in the Suijiang Nationals, which is here in Cleveland. Actually, turns out Cleveland is like a hotel hotspot for switch out. 

Interesting for, you know, different reasons. 

And. 

And then was invited to join the national. 

The Team USA and travel to China in October. 

Julia

Wow. 

Unknown

To compete in the World Swayzhou Games. 

It was. Which, yeah, it was very, very cool. It was really cool to go to China. 

I, you know, again, I'm like, still quite new at it. So it's just like I'm just going to go and enjoy the experience. 

And then since I was already in China, I added some time and I went down to the Wuding Mountain region, which is kind of the birthplace of Tai chi and some of the other internal styles, for 10 days of immersive martial arts study at a school in Wuding Mountain and the Wuding Mountains and I focused specifically on Bakujiang, which is a sort of circular fighting form that's an application of the I Ching, which is the Taoist books, the Book of Change or Book of Changes. And so it's all about sort of, you know, the circular fighting forms and really sort of like, how do you make rapid changes and sort of. You know, a lot of I Ching is. 

There's a lot of. 

Sorry, there's a lot of divination that comes out of the I Ching and sort of kind of tapping into that sort of deep, kind of like, intuition and whatnot. And so, yeah, I was like, I mean, babujang is just a really cool style. And I was also like, oh, what does it look like to have this kind of ancient source text that is then being applied into this movement or this embodiment style? And how can I sort of learn from that and sort of bring some inspiration and sort of have that dialogue which we bring into our work at Mitsui Collective and organization with Mitsui Method, you know, in a parallel way to sort of tapping into Jewish texts, Jewish culture, et cetera. So it was a. Yeah, just. And just obviously a really rich opportunity to do that. 

Julia

No, that's really amazing. 

Really cool. 

I was just thinking that before I really started to get serious about Judaism, I explored a lot of Buddhism, and I read a lot about the Taoists and all that philosophy. 

And at first I thought they were so different from Judaism and, like, they couldn't mix or match or they didn't have anything in common. 

But later on, when I started to really study the Torah and everything, I found a lot of similarities between these different Eastern philosophy and Judaism. 

And would you agree? 

Unknown

For sure. I think, yes, there. There's a tremendous amount of sort of, like, overlapping crossover. 

Yeah, I think. 

And I think kind of the. 

The digging into what is similar and what is shared and what is different. I think just like, that space is really interesting. And I. I certainly, you know, sometimes we see this. I'm not. You say this idea. 

I'm not saying you're saying this, but, like, you see this idea that sort of like, oh, all religions or all philosophies are. Are like 99.9% the same, you know, And I'm like, well, that's not quite there, you know, and often. Right. There are some, like, deeply shared, you know, kind of truths or experiences or aspects of the human experience that are shared, you know, and so just kind of. Yeah, I think I'm. I'm. Yeah, I'm always fascinated. Where is that overlap. Where is the distinction, the difference? And, and that space, I think, is really, really interesting. And so for sure there's. 

Yeah, so I've been doing a lot more of my own study, particularly sort of in Daoism. And, and, and yeah, exactly. Enjoying seeing like, oh, here's where there's some clear similarity and then here's where there's some. Some difference. 

And I think one is. 

It's so easy to just sort of like presume that all of these things are totally separate and have never talked to each other, so to speak. 

Right. And I make these, you know, subconsciously have made these assumptions myself, which is that, you know, obviously we know that. That, that Judaism started in, you know, land of, you know, ancient Israel or actually started in Babylon and then traveled, travel over. But, you know, in, you know, in. In that part of the world. 

And then it's sort of like, okay, yeah, we know that, that there, I mean, Jews have been in diaspora. We know that there's, you know, Mizrahi Jews who lived for centuries in, you know, Iran and Iraq and for even further into Central Asia, etc, and then obviously Ashkenazi Jews. But it's sort of easy to subconsciously kind of only remember or think about that trajectory of like, Israel up into Europe maybe back a little bit and then like continuing west to America. Right? Yeah, obviously, like, that is one of the primary pathways I'm talking about over many centuries. 

But it's sort of like, oh, yeah, but also Jews went the other way. 

Right. And like, not. They didn't just stop in Central Asia. Right. Like, they continued traveling. And yes, we know there are some like, you know, like the Kaifeng Jews in China. Like, there are pockets. And I'm not. Not talking about that, but I'm not only talking about that. It's just like there was this sort of cultural dialogue that has been going on for the last 2000 or more century, you know, years. 

And so it's sort of. And we know that Kabbalah, Jewish mysticism was deeply influenced by Sufism, which is, you know, like Muslim mysticism, for example. Like, those connections are really, really kind of clear and obvious if you study them. But it's sort of like, oh, you know, there's like, there's also in. In actually in pre Kabbalistic Jewish mysticism, we talk about the mother letters. This is from Sefer Yetzigra, which is the book of formation. 

So there are three mother letters, Aleph, Mem and Shin. 

And so the Mem, which makes the. The hum sound, the M That's associated with Adama, the earth, and sort of like, it's the sort of like the diaphragms of the body. So, like, kind of like here we can feel that in the mouth of. And like, the hum in the. 

Julia

Like, okay, yeah. 

Unknown

The pelvic floor and then the hum of, like, resonating with the earth. And so you hear that and you're like, oh, well, that sounds a heck. 

Julia

Of a lot like, oh, right. 

Unknown

And it's like, okay, like, wow, is. Were those completely divergent in terms of like, oh, yeah, you just. Like. Like people are just. 

At some point we're playing with different sounds like, oh, like, kind of facilitates certain sort of expressions in the body that are sort of grounding and connective. And so here it turned into om, and here it turned into the memory, maybe. But also, we don't know that, like, those people, so to speak, that, like, didn't have any dialogue. Right. And so I think there's. There's just that. 

That, that is a story in some cases, we just don't know where we've forgotten, but it's a story that we don't always tell. 

But it's really the story of, like, Judaism has always evolved in relationship to all of the cultures that we have been in relationship with because we've been a diasporic people for the last 2000 plus years. 

And so sometimes we sort of only get very kind of narrow parts of that story, which is actually really expansive story, and it's still ongoing. 

And so for me, like, that work of like, oh, where is there some interesting connection points between maybe it's like Taoism, right? 

You know, Jewish wisdom, or just like, you know, Asian or Chinese, like, cultural practices that are part of my personal lineage that are also sort of. I mean, I. I live my life at the intersection of those things, and I'm actually not doing anything different in terms of integrating that into my Jewish practice and expression than actually what we've been doing on this larger scale for 2,000 years. It's just that this is a newer and less recognized form of that. 

Julia

Right, yeah. Because even so, during the Havdala ceremony, you. You had us do some breathing exercises, which reminded me a lot of what I do in my yoga mat when I practice yoga. Right. And you had. Was it you that brought the little salt lamp? 

Unknown

Yes, yes. 

Julia

Yeah. So I. I felt that little bit of Eastern influence there. 

Unknown

Right, right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, it can get, obviously, it can get fuzzy and gray of when are you. 

And these are not always clear answers, you know, but when are we just the sort of, like, cultural appropriation versus dialogue is something that, again, it's not always kind of clear. Sometimes it is clear right when you cross that line, but it's often not so clear. 

And I think, hopefully folks are bringing just that question and intention in. I think, for me, how I look at it is saying, okay, there are. 

What are the different sort of techniques and practices and forms that are part of different styles or systems, whether that be yoga or Tai Chi or, you know, et cetera? 

And I think it's sort of like, it becomes very clear when we're sort of like, appropriating or taking something. When it's like we take, like, the very obvious form of something, like in yoga, like an asana. 

Right? And then we try to just make that Jewish. 

I'm like, that. I prefer not to do that. Right. 

You know, Or. Or, you know, same thing with. With Tai Chi, like, very. There are very specific forms that are part of Tai Chi that. 

I mean, this happens a lot. Like, you sort of just like kind of slap a Jewish. Like a Hebrew word or like a Jewish text, and we're like, oh, now we're doing this thing, but Jewish. And I'm just like, yeah, like, I think one just. That can really veer into the appropriation. And also, I think there's just not as. 

There's not as much depth as there could be. And so in our work, we try to say, like, okay, let's dig deeper and understand, like, why do some of these practices look how they look like, how do they develop? 

What are they tapping into? What wisdom, what theological ideas, et cetera, is that tapping into? And the more we understand that, then we can kind of do this, like, deconstruction to then say, ah, so how might we take some similar. 

Take some inspiration play with, like, breathing techniques, for example, you know, where it's like, oh, we did some box breathing, right? Like, that's a. It's a breathing technique, right? And then you can sort of like, shape it in different ways where then it kind of brings some of that kind of cultural specificity. 

Right. And sort of reconstruct in different ways that are sort of tapping into Jewish wisdom in certain ways. And again, it's not always clear, and sometimes you kind of like, go a little bit towards one or whatever. But, like, I think that's what we kind of try to do. Or sometimes I'll take in, you know, like, Tai Chi, like the technique of push hands, which comes from Tai Chi. Which is a way for us to really sort of like, feel that sort of softness and the give and the take, that is like a classic part of Tai Chi. 

And sometimes I'm like, well, let's just name. We're going to do some push hands. And we're like borrowing this technique from Tai chi to explore some Jewish ideas. 

I don't know. I'm like, exploring. I'm like, is that cool? I'm like, well, that's why I do try to name really clearly, like, this is a Tai Chi technique, right? That's where it comes from. 

And we're gonna play with it and adapt and explore it. And I don't know, I think it's just like we're in the. 

In the ongoing exploration of. All right, you know what, what, what's authentic? What's appreciation? What is, you know, what is the kind of convergence or fusing of culture in ways that are respectful and productive, you know, generative, you know? 

Julia

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's super interesting. 

See, I go to. I go to Chabad. 

My synagogue is Jewish Orthodox. 

Unknown

Yeah. 

Julia

And so there's for the last, I don't know, like, year or so, when I started to really get serious about it, part of me is saying, if I don't go the Orthodox way, I'm half assing it, pardon my French. 

Like, should I go all the way to really experience all the Jewishness, or is it okay to still be me? 

Because I don't think in this lifetime I can put on a wig and, you know, dress like the Orthodox and eat only kosher and all that. 

I don't think I'm ready for that in this lifetime. So maybe next life. But I have this constantly, these ideas in my mind, like, am I doing enough? 

What would you say about that? 

Unknown

Yeah, simple. A simple question. 

Yeah, yeah. 

So in that question of, like, am I doing enough? 

I'm thinking, you know, we celebrated Passover, you know, Pesach, not so long ago. And we have this idea of like, Dayenu, right? Of, like, even if God had only done this thing, Dainu would have enough, right? So I think, like, there's always more that each of us, in theory, could do. 

And yet we're also human and we're limited. So there's just like, there's always more in theory, but just like, to cultivate that feeling of our own internal Danu of like, enoughness and like, you know, we're created in the divine image, Basalm Elohim. So, like, that to me is. Is sort of that that is just a constant for every. For all of us. 

And it actually doesn't matter what we're doing or not doing. And the choices, it's. It's not. There's no conditionality to that. Right. The Torah doesn't say you're creating the divine image unless you do this thing or except when you don't do that thing. It just says, period. 

Yeah, that's like the foundation. 

And I think the more we can just stay connected to that internal sense of enoughness. 

And I think part of that is like, there's. I'd say it's like almost, in my opinion, like a misinterpretation or where you could sort of use that to sort of. Of be. You could use that to be really passive or sort of nihilistic of like, oh, so I don't need to. I don't need to do anything then. 

Julia

Right, Right, yeah. 

Unknown

You know, and. And like, oh, I don't need to keep learning and growing and whatever. 

And so it's like, what is that? 

What is that sort of balance where it's saying like, okay, my own enoughness is not conditional. It just is beautiful. And what is the expression of that? And how do I keep on exploring what that looks like for me? 

I mean, when you said just like, you know, the, like wearing a wig, for example, and different. Different practices, I just, I think that part of what. What that speaks to is me. To me is like, what are the ways in which we are. Like, how are we communicating these parts of our internal self in an external way? 

Right? And so there are, you know, where it's wearing a wig or a head covering or for, like, Orthodox men, like, maybe wearing cute seat or like, there are actually some of these ways that actually are these very external presentations of. Of Jewishness. 

And I'm, you know, it's not on me to say what's right. Wrong. Whatever. Those. There's just obviously different. Different ways. 

I think part of what I find really kind of compelling about embodiment is. 

I'm not saying the external doesn't matter, but I think. So we talk about embodiment as our way of being, right? So, like, how do we move through the world and what do we express expressing through our actions and behaviors? And, you know, like, what does it look like to move through. Move through the world in a way that my embodiment expresses, like, what it means for me to be Jewish as well as all the other parts of myself and for that, like. 

And it's. It's almost like you couldn't actually answer this, but this, it's a totally rhetorical question, but, like, what would it look like to be able to see just some. How somebody moves through the world and be able to be like, oh, that person's clearly Jewish. 

And I don't mean the external, like, oh, they've, you know, to like, stereotype, like, oh, they've got a big nose, right? Like, obviously not that. I mean, like, because of like how they move, not what they look like, but how they, you know, and, and, and there would be a, you know, a million plus different answers to that. You know, like, so it's a ritual. That's why it's a rhetorical question. But is there a way where I'm tapping into my Jewish values to how my Judaism informs. Just like, who, who I want to be in the world and how am I expressing that? And some of that is the external, like, oh, yeah, I want to put these clothes, put these clothes on or those clothes on, or wear this jewelry or like, you know, you know, I'm not saying we necessarily need to go to this like, aesthetic, you know, like going to become monks, whatever, right? But like, how are you moving through the world? And I think that's where embodiment can really impact us in that way. And I think, you know, one of the other things when you just say this sort of like the sort of going deep into, into Jewishness, I do think that one of the things that, you know, Orthodox folks or folks on that kind of side, you know, there is a deep sort of immersive. 

There's some deep immersiveness to that. 

And obviously for, obviously for some folks it works really well, right? And it's really, really beautiful. 

And for a lot of folks, it clearly is not like the right path for, for folks or how they want to express their Judaism or how they want to, you know, or some cases, maybe there's not values aligned in certain ways. Like all sorts of different reasons why folks don't choose that path. 

But I think for me, in our work, what I want to really offer is like, there are other ways to sort of have that level of sort of immersion and connection and authenticity where my Jewishness is informing how I move through the world on a day to day basis. 

But I've got different options for that. Like, I, okay, like, I don't need to like wear tzitzit necessarily, but like, what else? Or maybe I'm not keeping a sort of traditional kashrut, right? But like, I'm not doing that if I'm not praying three times a day. If I'm not doing some of those sort of aspects of a more traditionally observant life, how do I take the Jewish ideas and values and still really incorporate them into my day to day practice? Because I think we run the risk. And I think we've seen this where otherwise they just sort of sit up here and they're just really theoretical. 

Julia

Exactly. 

Unknown

And, you know, so I do think that's where it's like, what are the ways that we can really bring that into our day to day life? And. 

And I think that's what sort of compels me about the idea of embodied practice, is it. It's a way to do that where I can really be in practice. 

You know, I can have an embodied by sort of like getting into the studio several days a week maybe, you know, and that's part of my really like regular practice. And then it's also informing when I'm leaving the studio. Right. Just like, still, how am I carrying myself? How am I interacting with people of those qualities that are just sort of like moving more and more towards, you know, that person who I want to be in the world knowing I'll never completely get there. 

But also like Diana. 

Julia

Right. 

Unknown

Enough. And I'm going to keep striving for. 

Julia

Exactly as long as. Yeah, we keep growing. 

Okay, so then let's then finish with exactly what Mitsui Collective is. 

Unknown

Great. 

Helpful to say at some point. Yeah, yeah, great. So our work is to cultivate pathways to Jewish embodiment. 

As I said, we think about embodiment as our way of being. 

And I think embodiment really allows us to look at, okay, what are the formative elements that have really shaped who we are, both in how we see ourselves, how others see us. 

We do a lot of work sort of in racial identity as a big piece of sort of that is really connected to our physical bodies in terms of how we are racialized and how we've sort of constructed different categories of race, et cetera. 

Gender is also a really significant part of our identities that also has just a lot of fuzzy. Great in terms of what does that look like, especially in the modern world. 

So thinking about what are the ways in which we have been formed and shaped by the different, you know, from. From the people in our lives to the systems and the ideologies that also kind of surround and influence us, and particularly in the ways that have been constricting or oppressive and have limited us in really being able to become who we kind of fully or you know, could be in our full selves. 

So there's a lot of our work that really ties into that sort of deeper understanding and then really thinking about, okay, how to. What are the dynamics that come into play when we're interacting with each other, right, because of different racial identities, gender identities, et cetera, et cetera. 

And then that's sort of like, okay, how have we come to be who we are in our sort of shape in the world? And then that question of, okay, and who is it that we are striving to be both individually and collectively? And that's where the practice really comes into play. 

How do we practice more just like liberatory, deeply connected, rooted healing patterns that allow us to interact, disrupt those patterns of repression, those patterns that have, you know, that are harmful, and then create a space to then kind of recalibrate, right, and create new patterns, new neural pathways, practice that in the body to, you know, be working together towards, you know, towards that sort of better, better world, deeper sense of understanding, connection to self. So that is kind of in the meta. 

Our work and rooting in Jewish wisdom and identity expression. 

And then just like the. For another Jewish or like the Takhlis, the sort of, like the. 

The technical or like whatever pieces, the sort of straightforward. 

We have both national work and local work. So, you know, I live here in Cleveland, of course, and. And we have our local work. We have our national work, which is the Mitsui Institute of Jewish Embodiment. 

And as I said before, we started up just in time for the global pandemic to start. So we actually kind of, kind of accidentally became a national organization when everything moved on. 

Julia

Okay. 

Unknown

So that's where a lot of our institute work has emerged. And so we do a lot of travel for trainings and workshops, seminars. 

We do curriculum development research and that kind of thing through our institute, and really just sort of staying connected and helping to support this growing emerging field of Jewish embodiment. 

And then Studio Mitsui is our other branch, and that is, you know, it's. It's both the newest branch, but also is kind of like returning to the original seeds of our vision when we first started, which was to really be in practice with folks and to be really cultivating and strengthening and growing communities of practice so we can support individual folks in, you know, having that ongoing practice of Jewish embodiment to just sort of, yeah, help us to heal, to help us, you know, with our sort of holistic wellness in our bodies and our minds and, you know, emotionally, spiritually, all of that. And so we have an online studio that we started earlier this year, and then we are just getting started with our local studio here in Cleveland. 

We've had a weekly Omer series that, as of the date of this taping, we're about to have our last one. But then we're, you know, gonna be. 

Gonna be. 

Yeah. Just kind of continuing to stay in practice with folks and hopefully growing that community of folks that are getting together regularly to be in practice together. 

To be in favorita. Right. To be in that embodied learning and partnership relationship and building community through that work. So, yeah, Studio Mitsui is coming. Coming to Cleveland. 

Julia

Awesome. 

That sounds really great. 

Wow. Thank you for the work that you do in our community, and thank you, of course, for your time here today. 

So I will leave in the description of the episode, all the links and information about Mitsui Collective. What does mitsui, by the way, mean? 

Unknown

Yeah, Mitsui. It's a Hebrew Aramaic word. It means the activation of potential. 

Julia

Cool. 

Very, very cool. 

Unknown

Thank you. 

Julia

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. 

Unknown

Yeah, thank you. A real pleasure to be on and looking forward to staying in community and staying in practice. 

Julia

Absolutely. 

Thank you.